World travelers, we haz them and wants answers

[kinzel]

Bar behavior, always an interesting topic ... especially for folks writing about diverse futuristic pipples.

So tell me, those of you who have been there and done that, how reasonable are these 6 rules -- or do the naysayers in the comments have it?

http://www.cnngo.com/tokyo/drink/definitive-japanese-bar-code-conduct-056974?hpt=hp_bn10

Comments solicited....

Comments

[queenmaggie.livejournal.com]

I haven't traveled in Japan, but my husband has, for business, and he tells me that anyone there who shows a modicum of interest in the culture of manners will be approached by locals who want to improve their English. (Some business men were incredibly impressed that not only did he know about the tiny squid that were the celebration of spring delicacy, but that he ordered and ate them appropriately.)
Those rules sound like they sprang up in a nouveau riche milieu.

[keristor.livejournal.com]

I haven't been there, but I agree with the commenter who said "VERY SIMPLE. Do not go to their bars. Let it lose profit. Whoever hates his customer better run out of business. FAST." That article seems designed to put people off going to that country. But I suspect, along with the commenters, that if it is representative of anything it's of a small area (I know a restaurant in London which is (in)famous for the staff shouting abuse at the customers, apparently the customers enjoy it, it wouldn't be a good idea to generalise that to the whole country).

At least one of those rules would be unnecessary in the UK (and a lot of the rest of Europe) -- no cigars because no smoking in public indoor places at all.

[saruby.livejournal.com]

I haven't been to Japan, but I tend to think these are pretty reasonable rules of behavior in any high end bar. They mostly boil down to being courteous. He is not talking about a neighborhood bar where "everyone knows your name". And I don't like smoky bars either. Very glad when they stopped exempting bars from the smoking ban.

[autopope.livejournal.com]

Tried to post an answer earlier, LJ ate it.

TL;DR: it's rubbish.

Some of the "rules" relate to extremely posh high-end bars or restaurants anywhere (don't snub the maitre'd, the staff will show you to your seat). Some of them are normal Japanese politeness (respect other folks' privacy). Some are common sense (don't be a dick and try to bamboozle the bartender). But the "don't get drunk" thing is nonsense. Based on a couple of months in Tokyo and Kyoto I think I can say with some certainty that the Japanese get drunk in public. What they don't do is get drunk and aggressive. (Drunk and lachrymose, drunk and sleepy, drunk and happy, sure: drunk and violent, not good!)

[mbarker.livejournal.com]

I think the best response would be to ask a question. Suppose I went to Georgetown (D.C. area) to one or two of the small high-class bars there -- I used to know one where if the bouncer at the door knew you, you got in, otherwise, no, although he would usually recommend another place unless you were obnoxious. Then you wrote up what you observed in those bars as "THE DEFINITIVE GUIDE TO AMERICAN BARS."

Here's the question -- how good a guide would that be to American drinking habits?

Same problem here. Ginza has some pretty hoity-toity bars. But that's so far from being characteristic of the Japanese bar experience, or of Japan... not definitive, not unbreakable, and actually pretty insulting in the impression that it gives that this is all there is to Japan. There's about 1/3 the population of the US living here. Attempting to characterize that population with unbreakable, definitive rules in a short column like that, apparently based on visiting a few bars in Ginza (which used to be the high-price corporate bar area)? Come on.

I will admit, his rules are kind of common sense. Don't be obnoxious about starting conversations. Of course, he didn't include the rather common situation where they ask you where you are from... Don't snub the owner? Hey, when the chef, head waiter, or even your waiter comes around and talks, do you snub them? Sit where they say? Again, even in a greasy spoon diner, you very well might be told where to sit. Discuss your order? Did you go there to show off your knowledge of arcane drink names, or for some other reason?

No cigars? I don't see too many cigars in Japan, anyway. Or does he expect foreigners to be waving their cigars around the bar? Talk about the Ugly American syndrome!

And don't get drunk? As someone says in the comments, drunk and fighting is unusual in Japan, but drunk under the table, drunk and singing, drunk and... yeah, there's a few Japanese who will happily join you.

Incidentally, I think the biggest mistake here is the assumption that most drinking is done in bars. I don't think that most Japanese go to bars, so much. There's a whole range of other places where you can enjoy sitting with friends, eating, singing, drinking... drinking is much more a social thing than a "sit in the bar" thing. But that would take a long, long column to explain well, I guess.

I think the comments are better than the article, actually.